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 The reasons no game at all is truly realistic

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Diamondback
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PostSubject: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 5:34 pm

They treat air and water as respectively: Empty space, and empty space with a visual filter. Air is in fact a fluid, and even garry's mod treats it as just empty space. Spinning blades on something do nothing. And with water, it's just treated as empty space with a visual filter and maybe an air countdown. Thus, EVERY SINGLE game on earth has an unrealistic physics engine.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 5:42 pm

Air is a gas, not a fluid. Otherwise we'd drown or have gills.

Also, there is a Tomb Raider (gosh Tomb Raider) game where water and air are treated very differently. Can't remember the name but it was the only one I played even a bit of, the physics was interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 5:42 pm

Fluid is anything that flows. That's LIQUID you're thinking. Silly unit.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 5:45 pm

Air doesn't contain enough cool Carbon Dioxide to flow, it merely expands to fill all available space.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 5:46 pm

Not sure whether or not this has to do with anything involving this section, but I have no idea what you're talking about. If you're talking about air or water currents, do you have any idea how hard it is to mimic actual environmental behaviors? I mean, sure, it could be repetitive, but stuff like that needs a shit load of memory space.

And video games aren't really meant to be realistic... I mean, clones fighting off aliens, and plumbers eating mushrooms, punching block and kicking turtle ass that abducts princesses?
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Diamondback
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 5:47 pm

And it can "Flow" if you spin a blade through it. Which EVERY GAME EVER has failed to realize. Even garry's mod. It has a lot to do with polygon instead of atom rendering.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 5:48 pm

Patches does have a point although some of the engines Nvidia pumps out when they release new Beta PhysX drivers can be pretty darn neat when it comes to environmental stuff, massive amounts of RAM needed though.


Polygonning makes things easier and quicker to load and run. Atom rendering, even on a minute scale, would take up horrific amounts of space and require a rediculous amount of coding.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 5:51 pm

I just want games to at least quit treating air and water as empty space and emtpy space with a visual filter, respectively.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 5:52 pm

Patches, have you played Dead Space? Doesn't that treat the Void and Air differently.

A game released on steam not long ago also treated air and water differently, Hydrophobia I think it was called.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 5:53 pm

Then play Zelda or Oblivion or somethin', I dunno.

No, never played it. When you're jumping in space in Halo though, the gravity is much different.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 5:54 pm

Isn't that the point of video games? To be unrealistic? I know there are games like Call Of Duty which is kinda meant to be a bit realistic, but still.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 5:55 pm

unit111 wrote:
Patches, have you played Dead Space? Doesn't that treat the Void and Air differently.

A game released on steam not long ago also treated air and water differently, Hydrophobia I think it was called.
The void: Empty space with a particle effect and no pullyoudowneventhoughyou'reinspace engine.
Air: Empty space.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 5:59 pm

It's a lot more complicated than that Flee.

I enjoy a bit of unrealistic in games as well as some realistic, makes things interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 5:59 pm

Air isn't empty space. The air you breathe in and out is full of particles and atoms and shit that we call oxygen, carbon dioxide, hydrogen, and shit like that.

%10 of outer space has shit in it, the other %90 is empty.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 6:01 pm

He means how he thinks the game treats them Patches.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 6:04 pm

What unit said.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 6:05 pm

Oh. Well in any game when you jump, you fall back down. Throw something, it falls back down.

Try that in real life now.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 7:04 pm

it has less to do with them either A) not realising or B) not paying attention to the interactions of fluids. it has a lot more to do with the COMPLEXITY INVOLVED. Besides, the effect of air on forces, compared with, say, GRAVITY, are relatively low.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 8:46 pm

No it has to do with something called Programming Constants. Since most of Garry's mod is programmed in Lua and C++ it cannot modify something that would not usually change. Gravity is constant, but it can be programmed to have distinct barriers, IE SpaceBuild. Garry's mod has a form of air friction, but it cannot provide lift because that is a changing equation based on the model being smooth, you can add it, but that is not a realistic effect because the model is perfectly smooth, since it is made of a polygon, not molecular units.

Also air is a fluid, as it flows. Hence Airflow, Jetstream, etc. But because they are caused by unequal heating, or fans they have strange shapes that cannot be computed in the computer. Simulated using different methods, but they will never act realistically.

Believe it or not, the water is one of the most complex things in Garry's mod, light bends slightly, things slowdown when they hit the surface with little force at the right angle, and with an old mod you can make it flow and bend. These things are so... minute, that few people notice them unless they are specifically testing the physic bounds of an Engine, like I and many others do. (Yes I do now it is contained in a box, you will not drown in it, and it has little explosion dampening, but looking at it's code, it is remarkable.)

There is another thing, a video game cannot be realistic until we fully understand everything that happens, and why. This will never happen, thus video games will never be realistic by my standards. Most games go by Newton's Laws for their gravity, but they were proved to be vague and were expanded upon in General Relativity, still vague and at the brink of being revamped.

And now for that speel is ended. What was the exact point of this thread?
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 26 Oct 2011, 11:07 pm

If I might throw my two cents in:

1) Air is fluid, as is water, quicksand, and glass.

2) Airs effect on us is neglible, ergo there is absolutely no point in including it in a physics engine. The only place it would be needed is in a flight simulator, but those take up way more computer-room than any 5 of your computers could handle.

3) Water should have greater physics effects, like hurting mario when he jumps into the moat from the top of the princesses castle, or slowing down velociraptors when they try to hunt down turoc, but for the most part it is again all about room. The main thing to worry about with water, and the only thing addressed in most games, is GET UP BEFORE YOU DROWN YOU MORON!!!!

4) I could be very well mistaken, but I believe the point of this thread was too throw a bitch-fit over what he wants in a game that isnt there, and wont be until we either warp the cloud or develop quantum computing capacities.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Sat 09 Feb 2013, 4:51 am

castiel wrote:
Isn't that the point of video games? To be unrealistic? I know there are games like Call Of Duty which is kinda meant to be a bit realistic, but still.

Aahhah.

No. I'm not going to rant about Call Of Duty, but let me sum it up by saying it isn't. Call Of Duty has terrible AI, which really just run and impale themselves on your gun barrel, shitty weapon sounds, terrible graphics and...

Wait, goddamn. Well, most normal video games are unrealistic, and it's good to be that way. Really, do you honestly need to have games perfectly realistic? Honestly?

And if you want realism in a game, go check out some simulators. Take On Helicopters, Microsoft Flight Simulator, ARMA 2, ARMA 3, ARMA, OPERATION FLASHPOINT: COLD WAR CRISIS are some good ones. Very good ones.

My friend, the problem with games these days is that they are too easy. The general market does not want a challenge. They want to be leet, they want to be Prestige 500. They don't want to learn, think, and spend proper time.

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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Wed 20 Mar 2013, 4:03 am

This thread is pretty old (1 and a half years out of date). But then again, all the threads in this section are.

Most games do have a vague distinction between water and air. In water, in almost all games, you slow down and can usually swim. Much more than a graphical filter. In some games, where the world is subject to change, water will flow to lower points. Whether the water remains where it was before as well, creating a waterfall-like effect, or flows down as a whole, depends on how the developers want water to behave.

Keep in mind that applying a full set of realistic fluid dynamics to a game would be very CPU intensive and for almost every purpose in a game is useless. Air as empty space and water as a filtered region in which you slow down and swim in is sufficient to simulate air and water unless the world is subject to random or pseudo-random change. If the world is subject to change, then a method for water to flow is useful. Simulating the fluid effects of air, however, is not useful, unless aerodynamics are important to your game.

Designing games generally involves making simplifications where you are able, to both save on work, reduce potential for bugs and to save on RAM and CPU intensity. Fluid dynamics are in no way simple, so should be simplified or removed as is possible.
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Fri 22 Mar 2013, 3:23 pm

Some games, such as certain editions of the Legend of Zelda franchise, do have air effects, but only in very localized areas. One in particular the first dungeon, which I believe you have to play around with the wind currents and utilize them for your benefit. Some games, although I forget which ones, blow your arrows around and things like that. But like BBeast said, it would take a lot of RAM space up. I'd imagine we'd be able to produce systems capable of handling that much information going on at once in the next ten or twenty years or so.

By that time I'll be 27 or 37. Young enough to have a future ahead of me and old enough to be lazy.

I may have some spare time around that age to play a game once in a while.

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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Sat 23 Mar 2013, 1:13 am

Hmmdeed. Just a few days ago I noticed that an 8GB USB was about a tenth of the price of a 4gb USB a few years ago. Not sure how I remembered. And the same size.

Loving dis technology. Hating the 512mb graphics and the 4gb RAM though...
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PostSubject: Re: The reasons no game at all is truly realistic   Tue 26 Mar 2013, 3:53 am

Yes, there are games which include wind. But usually this wind is very simple- add velocity (speed and direction) to mobile entities. However, I do not recall any instances of more complex effects being added. Just regions of movement alteration.
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